Development on version 2.x (France edition)

[slurhp]

This looks awesome! I would say that angouleme and grenoble are the non essential cities and I think troyes and La Rochelle are essential. Nice work though

[mickastyle]

It's good ! Good luck Kutchek !

[Quaristice]

Angoulême is already signed everywhere in the map though, but I'm ok with its inclusion getting delayed since it's not a very important link.

Looks very great, but aren't there any room for Nice?

Nice is marked in the map.

[zebenji]

Yay! Can't wait to see the rest of France!

However, like I posted on the previous thread, I'm slightly concerned about Southeast France. I mean you did an amazin work in the West of the country, but according to your map, Southeast will look quite... empty. The Rhone valley, for instance, hosts a lot of big industries and transport companies. The Mediterranean has a lot of large and bustling towns: with Marseille and Nice, Toulon, Grenoble and Avignon are three essential towns in the area, as you can see on that map:



I would be a little sad to see an underdeveloped southeast.

Of course, I do understand it's a lot of work, but as I wrote last time, these are just suggestions so we get a complete France. Maybe these places can also be add as "bonus" cities. The main project should be to trace the main roads, being able to connect the South to Spain and Italy. Then maybe fill the country with other places if you still have time and, more important, motivation. Oh, and living really close to the N10, of course I'm up for Angoulême haha.

Anyway, no matter what you decide, I'll be happy to drive around.

[martinusK]

Quick question, have you marked Monaco or Nice? I'd much rather see Nice instead of Monaco, as it is bigger and Monaco, as a transport hub, has basically no value. Also, shouldn't Cannes fit in? Sorry if i'm wrong, but i think Cannes fits, even with the 1:19 scale. As zebenji mentioned, the southeast aka coastal region looks very empty.

[AlexanderPope]

To add to what zebenji and others have said, maybe you could exchange Angouleme for Avignon on the bonus list. They contribute to a similar distribution density in their respective areas, but adding Avignon instead of Angouleme could help keep a population:representation ratio consistent across the whole map.

Also, to people from France: is the area around Bourges really that sparsely populated, or is it just spread out in smaller villages?

[Roro44]

Yay! Can't wait to see the rest of France!
Oh, and living really close to the N10, of course I'm up for Angoulême haha.

it seems to me that if angoulême is provided, it will be connect the city by the N10 to Poitiers but by a Departmental road to the A89 (Bordeaux)

Also, to people from France: is the area around Bourges really that sparsely populated, or is it just spread out in smaller villages?

as you can see on the map of zebenji, there are no major city in the Bourges area.
These areas are not very populated, the biggest cities (Bourges, Chateauroux, Montlucon, Gueret, Moulins, Nevers ...) remain relatively small towns for to be on the map.
The greater citie is Bourges (roughly equal to Calais or ajjaccio)

[zebenji]

It seems to me that if angoulême is provided, it will be connect the city by the N10 to Poitiers but by a Departmental road to the A89 (Bordeaux)

The N10 connects Bordeaux (from St André de Cubzac) to Limoges, passing trough Angoulême (and a big cement works structure a few miles before)... and with this nice sign on the road, by the way :

as you can see on the map of zebenji, there are no major city in the Bourges area.

Indeed. This map represents the main urban areas of the country (meaning city + suburbs). The center of France always had medium-sized cities because it has been considered as the granary of the country for centuries. Towns like Orléans or Tours only grew because they were part of the king's possessions early in History. As Roro44 said, you do have medium-sized towns in this area, but they aren't very important in population and activity. Maybe Bourges, but being "only" the 62th largest urban area, it could be a bonus of a bonus of a bonus...

Also, shouldn't Cannes fit in? Sorry if i'm wrong, but i think Cannes fits, even with the 1:19 scale.

Cannes and Nice are 10/15 kilometers apart. In fact, Nice "cheats" as a big city because it counts Antibes and Cannes, which belong to the same urban area. What's more, Cannes "only" has 60,000 inhabitants... Maybe it could appear as an extension of Nice, just like Kutchek did with Tours and Joué-les-Tours. I think it would be the best compromise. On the 1:19 scale, I'm afraid having two cities that close to each other would just be a mess.

As zebenji mentioned, the southeast aka coastal region looks very empty.

Yes.I'm just feeling a bit concerned because there are a lot of towns in the West (if Kutchek's from there, not surprised at all haha). I think the towns which appear on the map I posted should be all considered:
- Valence looks small, but you can find quarries in the area, chemical industries, and it has been the HQ of Norbert Dantressangle for décades before relocating to Lyon very recently. You can still see their depot from the highway. Plus it would add some scenery along the A7 highway.
- Grenoble is often described as the French Sillicon Valley; plus it's the Gateway to the French Alps. However it might be tricky to design because of the mountains. Maybe as a bonus town.
- Avignon is where the A7 and A9 split (well it splits at Orange but that town is way too small compared to the rest). Maybe not a big industrial city, but you have wine and fruits. My theory? Maybe wait for the DLC so Avignon could host both a eAcres and the other type of farm goods.
- Toulon is the 13th French urban area, the first french military port, and the fastest way to find a ferry to Corsica when Marseille port authority is not on strike. Plus the Mediterranean should have at least one more city. And I don't count on Monaco for that because it's way too close to Nice.
- Annecy/Chambéry/Annemasse? Very beautiful scenery but too tricky to make. Maybe Chambéry among the three, but these towns are not that important. Could be nice to have a French town in the Alps though. (but Grenoble could easily fill that part).
- St Etienne? It's a large town but Kutchek already said that building this town is very difficult, St Etienne being trapped between a few hills. Anyway you can't place all the tows on the map.
- Nîmes? Forget it. Maybe add a factory or a depot connected to Montpellier, but that's it. It's way too close to Montpellier and Avignon, and between Avignon and Nîmes, Avignon should be done.

So as you can see, there are a lot of ideas to develop the rest of the country. The thing is, when I see other projects trying to add towns in Belgium or Germany, I'm wondering why France couldn't be that way too. However, I think your plan is perfect on a short and middle-term: getting all the main towns and the main roads of France, so Spain and Italy and be developed. For the long term, maybe adding a few more "brown spots" on that map. Because if you make the Southeast as great as what you've done so far, we'll get one of the most gorgeous areas of the whole Promods package.

Finally, here's a little document for your consideration :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area_(France)

You will get the largest French urban areas, a.k.a the most active economic areas of the country. Concerning what hasn't been built yet, we have Marseille in 3rd place, Toulouse in 4th place, Nice in 7th, Grenoble in 11th, Toulon in 13th, Montpellier just behind, Avignon in 16th, St Etienne in 17th and Clermont-Ferrand in 19th. And yeah I left Douai/Lens because it's in the North of the country, which has been already (very poorly) done by SCS (not even the A1 highway... really...).

I apologize if I sound too harsh or mean. This is clearly not my intention. I just do my best to bring as many details as possible to defend my case. Your project is already amazing. I was just suggesting a few bonuses.

[Roro44]

The N10 connects Bordeaux (from St André de Cubzac) to Limoges, passing trough Angoulême (and a big cement works structure a few miles before)... and with this nice sign on the road, by the way :

-The N10 is between Bordeaux and Poitiers (in 2X2 lane) and after to Paris (Chatellerault-Tours-Chateaudun-Chartres)
Angoulême to Limoges is the N141 !
And I think Kutchek want to do Angouleme with :
-N10 from Poitiers
-N141 from Limoges
-D674 or D939 from A89 (Bordeaux)

...Cannes and Nice are 10/15 kilometers apart. In fact, Nice "cheats" as a big city because it counts Antibes and Cannes, which belong to the same urban area. What's more, Cannes "only" has 60,000 inhabitants... Maybe it could appear as an extension of Nice, just like Kutchek did with Tours and Joué-les-Tours. I think it would be the best compromise. On the 1:19 scale, I'm afraid having two cities that close to each other would just be a mess...

-Maybe, that it's true some cities in french are not exactly this city (Tours Joué les Toues/Saint Pierre des Corps, Bordeaux Merignac, Rouen Quevilly, Rennes Vezin)

- Valence
- Grenoble
- Avignon
- Toulon
- Annecy/Chambéry/Annemasse?
- St Etienne?
- Nîmes?

For me, in reason of the scale 1:19, if he do more cities in south east.
It will have to choose between :
-Valence, Grenoble or Chambéry
-Avignon or Nîmes

but nothing prevents to put businesses in a city far from it
as in Orléans (Geodis in Ormes)
in Bordeaux (Baron de Rothschild in Pauillac, E-tree-et next to Dax)
in Poitiers (E-Acres in Parthenay)
in Rouen (E-Acres next to Dieppe)

[martinusK]

Cannes "only" has 60,000 inhabitants...

For an Estonian that is a large number - Cannes (rank 66 in France) is comparable to Narva (rank 3 in Estonia) (by population).
On the map it seemed like a bigger area between Cannes and Nice..who knows, maybe we will get Cannes as an extension of Nice.